Re: PC: RE:Bicentennial paint

["Bill K." <pontiac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

agreed.   There is a whole host of ways to take this, but this is the PC
list, not the EL list, so I figured I would let it go - 

Bill K.

----------
> From: Armstrong, John A <ArmstronJA -AT- corning.com>
> To: 'penn-central -AT- smellycat.com'
> Subject: RE: PC: RE:Bicentennial paint
> Date: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 10:37 AM
> 
> The SDP45 were certainly not leased for a dollar!  The leasor certainly
did not place restriction on their use.
> 
> 
> 
> > Wrong, as usual.
> > 
> > I have the 1973 DPA-LTA roster. The U34CH fleet is listed under Erie
> > Lackawanna, with a note that they are leased from New Jersey. (I guess
> > someone could say that EL didn't have any SDP45 since they were leased,
> > too.) 
> > 
> > I found a couple of diesel locomotive books that show the U34CH in its
> > modified EL paint scheme. One shows the first U34CH and the other shows
> > one just a few units from the end of the run.
> > 
> > NJDOT bought equipment to be used on various roads, starting in 1968,
to
> > subsidize commuter service. Central of New Jersey, for example,
received
> > a GP40P fleet.
> > 
> > All of the systems subsidized by NJDOT became part of Conrail in 1976.
> > This continued for several years. In 1981 The Northeast Rail Service
Act
> > ordered Conrail to get out of the commuter business by the end of 1982.
> > NJ Transit was formed in 1982, and took over their commuter operations
on
> > January 1, 1983.
> > 
> > Does anyone have any photos of Penn Central lettered equipment financed
> > by New Jersey, since NJDOT subsidized some ex-Pennsy lines? Also, does
> > anyone have more photos of NJDOT subsidized Conrail equipment?
> > 
> > Bryan
> > 
> > 
> > On Sun, 27 Feb 2000 01:09:29 -0500 "NEW HAVEN U25B"
> > <ERIE-LACKAWANNA -AT- prodigy.net> writes:
> > > Ownership plate on U34CH's stated NEW JERSEY DEPARTMENT OF 
> > > TRANSPORTATION,
> > > OWNER. The engines were bought outright by the state and not 
> > > financed and
> > > leased to EL plus the equipment at $1.00 per engine, per car, per 
> > > month.
> > > plus maintenance. The paint scheme was not an EL inspired one as 
> > > silver
> > > stripe was wider than the EL Maroon stripe. NJDOT GP7's and one 
> > > GP40P where
> > > painted as such as were many E8's. U34CH's were purchased at EL's 
> > > request
> > > because at the time the NJDOT did not have experience in purchasing
> > > locomotives and bought what EL wanted, a modified U36C with HEP
> > > that reduce HP to 3420, thus classified it as a U34CH. EL figured 
> > > they could
> > > use the engines on freights over weekends when some lines did not 
> > > operate
> > > weekend commuter service. NJDOT stopped the practice. Maintenance 
> > > base was
> > > Elizabethport and not Hornell. What EL did was illegal and not in 
> > > the
> > > agreeement with NJDOT. There were no leases on U34CH's. They were 
> > > 100% NJDOT
> > > owned and simply transferred in 1983 to NJDOT's railroad division 
> > > known as
> > > NJT. Only one FL9 5023 was lettered CR for obvious reasons. Engine 
> > > 5023 was
> > > the last 100% New Haven RR FL9 on the property in much need of a new
> > > repainting. NH paint was chipping and faded. It was totally 
> > > sandblasted the
> > > came out of Harmon shops in MTA blue and Yellow indicating MTA 
> > > ownership as
> > > all other FL9's with white CR name and logo.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > most likely NJ DOT financed their purchase by EL, since they wore 
> > > NJ DOT
> > > > colors rather than G/M/Y EL colors.   I know from one of the EL 
> > > books that
> > > > EL wasn't supposed to use them west of Hornell when they did 
> > > borrow one
> > > for
> > > > frieght work - the idea being to keep them close so they would be 
> > > where
> > > > they belonged Monday morning.   Also, other than the Bicen unit I 
> > > don't
> > > > think any were ever lettered Conrail like FL9's were.  It could be 
> > > that it
> > > > took the original lease to expire before the actual title was 
> > > transfered
> > > to
> > > > NJT.
> > > >
> > > > Did PC paint anything besides the one buisness car for the 
> > > Bicentennial?
> > > I
> > > > know EL had it's SD45/SDP45 combo and LV did a caboose, but I'm 
> > > pretty
> > > sure
> > > > RDG and CNJ went without...    looks like the 2 PC engines that 
> > > were
> > > > painted were done by Conrail, though.
> > > >
> > > > ----------
> > > > > From: Garrett Rea <Garrett.Rea -AT- worldnet.att.net>
> > > > > To: penn-central -AT- smellycat.com> 
> > > > > Subject: Re: PC: RE:Bicentennial paint
> > > > > Date: Saturday, February 26, 2000 6:33 PM
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From: NEW HAVEN U25B <ERIE-LACKAWANNA -AT- prodigy.net>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >The U34CH is not CR property and only lettered CR on the upper 
> > > side of
> > > > long
> > > > > >hood. Engine is also marked with NJDOT logos. A year after the 
> > > the
> > > > bicent
> > > > > >the engine remained red white blue and had the CONRAIL name 
> > > painted out
> > > > and
> > > > > >renumbered back to 4151 which is its real number.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Would this be the same as CR U34CH 4151, an ex EL unit?  It is 
> > > shown as
> > > a
> > > > CR
> > > > > unit in 1977, based in Secaucus, working commuter service on 
> > > former EL
> > > > > territory.  This from CR's 77 roster.  Thirty-two units listed 
> > > total,
> > > > 4151
> > > > > first of the series.  As N. H, points out, there is a question 
> > > to actual
> > > > > ownership, as there was a lot of foreign power on CR in those
> > > > > days....however, it is under the "owned" category, not "leased". 
> > >  Other
> > > > > locos listed that went to NJDOT are not included in the totals 
> > > active by
> > > > > class, whilst the U34CHs are shown to be CR owned, but the 
> > > pictured unit
> > > > has
> > > > > NJDOT logos....CONFUSING!
> > > > >
> > > > > GWR
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> >